ButterflyLabs ASIC Miner 5.1GH/s for SALE - Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin Mining Equipment for sale (~35 gh/s)

Want to get into Bitcoin mining? Don't want to wait until the Second Coming of Christ to get a unit from Butterfly Labs or sell your children to afford one on Fleabay? My loss is your gain.
Today, I'd like to offer my Butterfly Labs Bitcoin Miners for sale, I have one 5 gh/s miner and another 30 gh/s miner. I've used them for about a month, and they are essentially in new condition what you see here is what you get.
With the difficulty today, these babies should be able to net you about .02 Bitcoin per 24 hours of operation.
I'm asking for $1,800 for both units although I'm willing to take a best offer. Cash is preferable. Picture of Max Headroom not included.
submitted by J_Mnemonic to AustinClassifieds [link] [comments]

[For Sale] Butterfly Labs 5 GH/s Jalapeño ASIC Bitcoin Miner - runs at ~6.7 to 7.3 GH/s stable

I want to sell: Butterfly Labs 5 GH/s Jalapeño ASIC Bitcoin Miner
The price in BTC (includes shipping): 1 BTC to 134Z2Sv5B7UwUhoSxypaXGyjqHKWoTWUgv
I am willing to ship to: USA (others negotiable and not for free)
Images of my product: http://imgur.com/a/EcgZh
Proof of hardware and hash rate in images linked above. Note that trail off at end of graphs is from shutting down the miner purposefully.
I am the first owner, and I received this miner directly from Butterfly Labs less than 48 hours ago. I still have the original box, power supply, USB cable, and of course the miner.
After tinkering with it for a few hours I have successfully mined Bitcoins (BTC), Freicoin (FRC), and Zetacoin (ZET) using my MacBook Pro and the miner GUI Asteroid. Pretty cool stuff. I have a few fractions of BTC in my wallet now so I can say that, "I mined cryptocurrencies back when I was your age" to the grandkids one day.
Now that my curiosity is sated, I'd like to pass this ASIC on to another aspiring minetinkeregeek and let them have a go at it. I can offer help if you are running Mac OS X.
If you are in the Seattle, WA area I'll deliver in person and help you get it up and running.
submitted by JLHawkins to SeaList [link] [comments]

50GH/s Butterfly Labs ASIC Miner (Brand New In Box) Ready to Deliver Now! is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/50ghs-butterfly-labs-asic-miner-brand-new-in-box-ready-to-deliver-now/

50GH/s Butterfly Labs ASIC Miner (Brand New In Box) Ready to Deliver Now! is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/50ghs-butterfly-labs-asic-miner-brand-new-in-box-ready-to-deliver-now/ submitted by duetschpire to cryptothrift [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs 60GH/s Bitcoin miner BFL SC 60 in hand is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-60ghs-bitcoin-miner-bfl-sc-60-in-hand/

Butterfly Labs 60GH/s Bitcoin miner BFL SC 60 in hand is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-60ghs-bitcoin-miner-bfl-sc-60-in-hand/ submitted by duetschpire to cryptothrift [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs BFL 60 GH/s Single SC ASIC Bitcoin Miner is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-bfl-60-ghs-single-sc-asic-bitcoin-miner/

Butterfly Labs BFL 60 GH/s Single SC ASIC Bitcoin Miner is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-bfl-60-ghs-single-sc-asic-bitcoin-mine submitted by duetschpire to cryptothrift [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs 25GH/s Miner is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-25ghs-miner/

Butterfly Labs 25GH/s Miner is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-25ghs-mine submitted by duetschpire to cryptothrift [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs 60Gh/s ASIC Miner is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-60ghs-asic-miner/

submitted by duetschpire to cryptothrift [link] [comments]

For Sale: Butterfly Labs BFL 50 Gh/s Bitcoin Miner and power supply on cryptothrift

For Sale: Butterfly Labs BFL 50 Gh/s Bitcoin Miner and power supply on cryptothrift for cryptocoins
Tags: BFL, BITCOIN, Miner
cryptothrift is a Bitcoin, Litecoin and altcoin marketplace and auction site with automated escrow.
submitted by cryptothrift to cryptothrift [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs Jalapeno 7+ GH/s BFL ASIC Miner - For Parts - Not Working is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-jalapeno-7-ghs-bfl-asic-miner-for-parts-not-working-5/

submitted by duetschpire to cryptothrift [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs 60Gh/s ASIC Miner is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-60ghs-asic-miner-2/

Butterfly Labs 60Gh/s ASIC Miner is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-60ghs-asic-miner-2/ submitted by duetschpire to cryptothrift [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs Jalapeno 7+ GH/s BFL ASIC Miner is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-jalapeno-7-ghs-bfl-asic-miner/

Butterfly Labs Jalapeno 7+ GH/s BFL ASIC Miner is for sale on cryptothrift.com for Bitcoin and Litecoin https://cryptothrift.com/auctions/crypto-mining-asic/butterfly-labs-jalapeno-7-ghs-bfl-asic-mine submitted by duetschpire to cryptothrift [link] [comments]

An extensive guide for cashing out bitcoin and cryptocurrencies into private banks

Hey guys.
Merry Xmas !
I am coming back to you with a follow up post, as I have helped many people cash out this year and I have streamlined the process. After my original post, I received many requests to be more specific and provide more details. I thought that after the amazing rally we have been attending over the last few months, and the volatility of the last few days, it would be interesting to revisit more extensively.
The attitude of banks around crypto is changing slowly, but it is still a tough stance. For the first partial cash out I operated around a year ago for a client, it took me months to find a bank. They wouldn’t want to even consider the case and we had to knock at each and every door. Despite all my contacts it was very difficult back in the days. This has changed now, and banks have started to open their doors, but there is a process, a set of best practices and codes one has to follow.
I often get requests from crypto guys who are very privacy-oriented, and it takes me months to have them understand that I am bound by Swiss law on banking secrecy, and I am their ally in this onboarding process. It’s funny how I have to convince people that banks are legit, while on the other side, banks ask me to show that crypto millionaires are legit. I have a solid background in both banking and in crypto so I manage to make the bridge, but yeah sometimes it is tough to reconcile the two worlds. I am a crypto enthusiast myself and I can say that after years of work in the banking industry I have grown disillusioned towards banks as well, like many of you. Still an account in a Private bank is convenient and powerful. So let’s get started.
There are two different aspects to your onboarding in a Swiss Private bank, compliance-wise.
*The origin of your crypto wealth
*Your background (residence, citizenship and probity)
These two aspects must be documented in-depth.
How to document your crypto wealth. Each new crypto millionaire has a different story. I may detail a few fun stories later in this post, but at the end of the day, most of crypto rich I have met can be categorized within the following profiles: the miner, the early adopter, the trader, the corporate entity, the black market, the libertarian/OTC buyer. The real question is how you prove your wealth is legit.
1. Context around the original amount/investment Generally speaking, your first crypto purchase may not be documented. But the context around this acquisition can be. I have had many cases where the original amount was bought through Mtgox, and no proof of purchase could be provided, nor could be documented any Mtgox claim. That’s perfectly fine. At some point Mtgox amounted 70% of the bitcoin transactions globally, and people who bought there and managed to withdraw and keep hold of their bitcoins do not have any Mtgox claim. This is absolutely fine. However, if you can show me the record of a wire from your bank to Tisbane (Mtgox's parent company) it's a great way to start.
Otherwise, what I am trying to document here is the following: I need context. If you made your first purchase by saving from summer jobs, show me a payroll. Even if it was USD 2k. If you acquired your first bitcoins from mining, show me the bills of your mining equipment from 2012 or if it was through a pool mine, give me your slushpool account ref for instance. If you were given bitcoin against a service you charged, show me an invoice.
2. Tracking your wealth until today and making sense of it. What I have been doing over the last few months was basically educating compliance officers. Thanks God, the blockchain is a global digital ledger! I have been telling my auditors and compliance officers they have the best tool at their disposal to lead a proper investigation. Whether you like it or not, your wealth can be tracked, from address to address. You may have thought all along this was a bad feature, but I am telling you, if you want to cash out, in the context of Private Banking onboarding, tracking your wealth through the block explorer is a boon. We can see the inflows, outflows. We can see the age behind an address. An early adopter who bought 1000 BTC in 2010, and let his bitcoin behind one address and held thus far is legit, whether or not he has a proof of purchase to show. That’s just common sense. My job is to explain that to the banks in a language they understand.
Let’s have a look at a few examples and how to document the few profiles I mentioned earlier.
The trader. I love traders. These are easy cases. I have a ton of respect for them. Being a trader myself in investment banks for a decade earlier in my career has taught me that controlling one’s emotions and having the discipline to impose oneself some proper risk management system is really really hard. Further, being able to avoid the exchange bankruptcy and hacks throughout crypto history is outstanding. It shows real survival instinct, or just plain blissed ignorance. In any cases traders at exchange are easy cases to corroborate since their whole track record is potentially available. Some traders I have met have automated their trading and have shown me more than 500k trades done over the span of 4 years. Obviously in this kind of scenario I don’t show everything to the bank to avoid information overload, and prefer to do some snacking here and there. My strategy is to show the early trades, the most profitable ones, explain the trading strategy and (partially expose) the situation as of now with id pages of the exchanges and current balance. Many traders have become insensitive to the risk of parking their crypto at exchange as they want to be able to trade or to grasp an occasion any minute, so they generally do not secure a substantial portion on the blockchain which tends to make me very nervous.
The early adopter. Provided that he has not mixed his coin, the early adopter or “hodler” is not a difficult case either. Who cares how you bought your first 10k btc if you bought them below 3$ ? Even if you do not have a purchase proof, I would generally manage to find ways. We just have to corroborate the original 30’000 USD investment in this case. I mainly focus on three things here:
*proof of early adoption I have managed to educate some banks on a few evidences specifically related to crypto markets. For instance with me, an old bitcointalk account can serve as a proof of early adoption. Even an old reddit post from a few years ago where you say how much you despise this Ripple premined scam can prove to be a treasure readily available to show you were early.
*story telling Compliance officers like to know when, why and how. They are human being looking for simple answers to simple questions and they don’t want like to be played fool. Telling the truth, even without a proof can do wonders, and even though bluffing might still work because banks don’t fully understand bitcoin yet, it is a risky strategy that is less and less likely to pay off as they are getting more sophisticated by the day.
*micro transaction from an old address you control This is the killer feature. Send a $20 worth transaction from an old address to my company wallet and to one of my partner bank’s wallet and you are all set ! This is gold and considered a very solid piece of evidence. You can also do a microtransaction to your own wallet, but banks generally prefer transfer to their own wallet. Patience with them please. they are still learning.
*signature message Why do a micro transaction when you can sign a message and avoid potentially tainting your coins ?
*ICO millionaire Some clients made their wealth participating in ETH crowdsale or IOTA ICO. They were very easy to deal with obviously and the account opening was very smooth since we could evidence the GENESIS TxHash flow.
The miner Not so easy to proof the wealth is legit in that case. Most early miners never took screenshot of the blocks on bitcoin core, nor did they note down the block number of each block they mined. Until the the Slashdot article from August 2010 anyone could mine on his laptop, let his computer run overnight and wake up to a freshly minted block containing 50 bitcoins back in the days. Not many people were structured enough to store and secure these coins, avoid malwares while syncing the blockchain continuously, let alone document the mined blocks in the process. What was 50 BTC worth really for the early miners ? dust of dollars, games and magic cards… Even miners post 2010 are generally difficult to deal with in terms of compliance onboarding. Many pool mining are long dead. Deepbit is down for instance and the founders are MIA. So my strategy to proof mining activity is as follow:
*Focusing on IT background whenever possible. An IT background does help a lot to bring some substance to the fact you had the technical ability to operate a mining rig.
*Showing mining equipment receipts. If you mined on your own you must have bought the hardware to do so. For instance mining equipment receipts from butterfly lab from 2012-2013 could help document your case. Similarly, high electricity bill from your household on a consistent basis back in the day could help. I have already unlocked a tricky case in the past with such documents when the bank was doubtful.
*Wallet.dat files with block mining transactions from 2011 thereafter This obviously is a fantastic piece of evidence for both you and me if you have an old wallet and if you control an address that received original mined blocks, (even if the wallet is now empty). I will make sure compliance officers understand what it means, and as for the early adopter, you can prove your control over these wallet through a microtransaction. With these kind of addresses, I can show on the block explorer the mined block rewards hitting at regular time interval, and I can even spot when difficulty level increased or when halvening process happened.
*Poolmining account. Here again I have educated my partner bank to understand that a slush account opened in 2013 or an OnionTip presence was enough to corroborate mining activity. The block explorer then helps me to do the bridge with your current wallet.
*Describing your set up and putting it in context In the history of mining we had CPU, GPU, FPG and ASICs mining. I will describe your technical set up and explain why and how your set up was competitive at that time.
The corporate entity Remember 2012 when we were all convinced bitcoin would take over the world, and soon everyone would pay his coffee in bitcoin? How naïve we were to think transaction fees would remain low forever. I don’t blame bitcoin cash supporters; I once shared this dream as well. Remember when we thought global adoption was right around the corner and some brick and mortar would soon accept bitcoin transaction as a common mean of payment? Well, some shop actually did accept payment and held. I had a few cases as such of shops holders, who made it to the multi million mark holding and had invoices or receipts to proof the transactions. If you are organized enough to keep a record for these trades and are willing to cooperate for the documentation, you are making your life easy. The digital advertising business is also a big market for the bitcoin industry, and affiliates partner compensated in btc are common. It is good to show an invoice, it is better to show a contract. If you do not have a contract (which is common since all advertising deals are about ticking a check box on the website to accept terms and conditions), there are ways around that. If you are in that case, pm me.
The black market Sorry guys, I can’t do much for you officially. Not that I am judging you. I am a libertarian myself. It’s just already very difficult to onboard legit btc adopters, so the black market is a market I cannot afford to consider. My company is regulated so KYC and compliance are key for me if I want to stay in business. Behind each case I push forward I am risking the credibility and reputation I have built over the years. So I am sorry guys I am not risking it to make an extra buck. Your best hope is that crypto will eventually take over the world and you won’t need to cash out anyway. Or go find a Lithuanian bank that is light on compliance and cooperative.
The OTC buyer and the libertarian. Generally a very difficult case. If you bought your stack during your journey in Japan 5 years ago to a guy you never met again; or if you accumulated on https://localbitcoins.com/ and kept no record or lost your account, it is going to be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. We will try to build a case with everything else we have, and I may be able to onboard you. However I am risking a lot here so I need to be 100% confident you are legit, before I defend you. Come & see me in Geneva, and we will talk. I will run forensic services like elliptic, chainalysis, or scorechain on an extract of your wallet. If this scan does not raise too many red flags, then maybe we can work together ! If you mixed your coins all along your crypto history, and shredded your seeds because you were paranoid, or if you made your wealth mining professionally monero over the last 3 years but never opened an account at an exchange. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I am not a magician and don’t get me wrong, I love monero, it’s not the point.
Cashing out ICOs Private companies or foundations who have ran an ICO generally have a very hard time opening a bank account. The few banks that accept such projects would generally look at 4 criteria:
*Seriousness of the project Extensive study of the whitepaper to limit the reputation risk
*AML of the onboarding process ICOs 1.0 have no chance basically if a background check of the investors has not been conducted
*Structure of the moral entity List of signatories, certificate of incumbency, work contract, premises...
*Fiscal conformity Did the company informed the authorities and seek a fiscal ruling.
For the record, I am not into the tax avoidance business, so people come to me with a set up and I see if I can make it work within the legal framework imposed to me.
First, stop thinking Switzerland is a “offshore heaven” Swiss banks have made deals with many governments for the exchange of fiscal information. If you are a French citizen, resident in France and want to open an account in a Private Bank in Switzerland to cash out your bitcoins, you will get slaughtered (>60%). There are ways around that, and I could refer you to good tax specialists for fiscal optimization, but I cannot organize it myself. It would be illegal for me. Swiss private banks makes it easy for you to keep a good your relation with your retail bank and continue paying your bills without headaches. They are integrated to SEPA, provide ebanking and credit cards.
For information, these are the kind of set up some of my clients came up with. It’s all legal; obviously I do not onboard clients that are not tax compliant. Further disclaimer: I did not contribute myself to these set up. Do not ask me to organize it for you. I won’t.
EU tricks
Swiss lump sum taxation Foreign nationals resident in Switzerland can be taxed on a lump-sum basis if they are not gainfully employed in our country. Under the lump-sum tax regime, foreign nationals taking residence in Switzerland may choose to pay an expense-based tax instead of ordinary income and wealth tax. Attractive cantons for the lump sum taxation are Zug, Vaud, Valais, Grisons, Lucerne and Berne. To make it short, you will be paying somewhere between 200 and 400k a year and all expenses will be deductible.
Switzerland has adopted a very friendly attitude towards crypto currency in general. There is a whole crypto valley in Zug now. 30% of ICOs are operated in Switzerland. The reason is that Switzerland has thrived for centuries on banking secrecy, and today with FATCA and exchange of fiscal info with EU, banking secrecy is dead. Regulators in Switzerland have understood that digital ledger technologies were a way to roll over this competitive advantage for the generations to come. Switzerland does not tax capital gains on crypto profits. The Finma has a very pragmatic approach. They have issued guidance- updated guidelines here. They let the business get organized and operate their analysis on a case per case basis. Only after getting a deep understanding of the market will they issue a global fintech license in 2019. This approach is much more realistic than legislations which try to regulate everything beforehand.
Italy new tax exemption. It’s a brand new fiscal exemption. Go to Aoste, get residency and you could be taxed a 100k/year for 10years. Yes, really.
Portugal What’s crazy in Europe is the lack of fiscal harmonization. Even if no one in Brussels dares admit it, every other country is doing fiscal dumping. Portugal is such a country and has proved very friendly fiscally speaking. I personally have a hard time trusting Europe. I have witnessed what happened in Greece over the last few years. Some of our ultra high net worth clients got stuck with capital controls. I mean no way you got out of crypto to have your funds confiscated at the next financial crisis! Anyway. FYI
Malta Generally speaking, if you get a residence somewhere you have to live there for a certain period of time. Being stuck in Italy is no big deal with Schengen Agreement, but in Malta it is a different story. In Malta, the ordinary residence scheme is more attractive than the HNWI residence scheme. Being an individual, you can hold a residence permit under this scheme and pay zero income tax in Malta in a completely legal way.
Monaco Not suitable for French citizens, but for other Ultra High Net worth individual, Monaco is worth considering. You need an account at a local bank as a proof of fortune, and this account generally has to be seeded with at least EUR500k. You also need a proof of residence. I do mean UHNI because if you don’t cash out minimum 30m it’s not interesting. Everything is expensive in Monaco. Real Estate is EUR 50k per square meter. A breakfast at Monte Carlo Bay hotel is 70 EUR. Monaco is sunny but sometimes it feels like a golden jail. Do you really want that for your kids?
Dubaï
  1. Set up a company in Dubaï, get your resident card.
  2. Spend one day every 6 month there
  3. ???
  4. Be tax free
US tricks Some Private banks in Geneva do have the license to manage the assets of US persons and U.S citizens. However, do not think it is a way to avoid paying taxes in the US. Opening an account at an authorized Swiss Private banks is literally the same tax-wise as opening an account at Fidelity or at Bank of America in the US. The only difference is that you will avoid all the horror stories. Horror stories are all real by the way. In Switzerland, if you build a decent case and answer all the questions and corroborate your case in depth, you will manage to convince compliance officers beforehand. When the money eventually hits your account, it is actually available and not frozen.
The IRS and FATCA require to file FBAR if an offshore account is open. However FBAR is a reporting requirement and does not have taxes related to holding an account outside the US. The taxes would be the same if the account was in the US. However penalties for non compliance with FBAR are very large. The tax liability management is actually performed through the management of the assets ( for exemple by maximizing long term capital gains and minimizing short term gains).
The case for Porto Rico. Full disclaimer here. I am not encouraging this. Have not collaborated on such tax avoidance schemes. if you are interested I strongly encourage you to seek a tax advisor and get a legal opinion. I am not responsible for anything written below. I am not going to say much because I am so afraid of uncle Sam that I prefer to humbly pass the hot potato to pwc From here all it takes is a good advisor and some creativity to be tax free on your crypto wealth if you are a US person apparently. Please, please please don’t ask me more. And read the disclaimer again.
Trust tricks Generally speaking I do not accept fringe fiscal situation because it puts me in a difficult situation to the banks I work with, and it is already difficult enough to defend a legit crypto case. Trust might be a way to optimize your fiscal situation. Belize. Bahamas. Seychelles. Panama, You name it. At the end of the day, what matters for Swiss Banks are the beneficial owner and the settlor. Get a legal opinion, get it done, and when you eventually knock at a private bank’s door, don’t say it was for fiscal avoidance you stupid ! You will get the door smashed upon you. Be smarter. It will work. My advice is just to have it done by a great tax specialist lawyer, even if it costs you some money, as the entity itself needs to be structured in a professional way. Remember that with trust you are dispossessing yourself off your wealth. Not something to be taken lightly.
“Anonymous” cash out. Right. I think I am not going into this topic, neither expose the ways to get it done. Pm me for details. I already feel a bit uncomfortable with all the info I have provided. I am just going to mention many people fear that crypto exchange might become reporting entities soon, and rightly so. This might happen anyday. You have been warned. FYI, this only works for non-US and large cash out.
The difference between traders an investors. Danmark, Holland and Germany all make a huge difference if you are a passive investor or if you are a trader. ICO is considered investing for instance and is not taxed, while trading might be considered as income and charged aggressively. I would try my best to protect you and put a focus on your investor profile whenever possible, so you don't have to pay 52% tax if you do not have to :D
Full cash out or partial cash out? People who have been sitting on crypto for long have grown an emotional and irrational link with their coins. They come to me and say, look, I have 50m in crypto but I would like to cash out 500k only. So first let me tell you that as a wealth manager my advice to you is to take some off the table. Doing a partial cash out is absolutely fine. The market is bullish. We are witnessing a redistribution of wealth at a global scale. Bitcoin is the real #occupywallstreet, and every one will discuss crypto at Xmas eve which will make the market even more supportive beginning 2018, especially with all hedge funds entering the scene. If you want to stay exposed to bitcoin and altcoins, and believe these techs will change the world, it’s just natural you want to keep some coins. In the meantime, if you have lived off pizzas over the last years, and have the means to now buy yourself an nice house and have an account at a private bank, then f***ing do it mate ! Buy physical gold with this account, buy real estate, have some cash at hands. Even though US dollar is worthless to your eyes, it’s good and convenient to have some. Also remember your wife deserves it ! And if you have no wife yet and you are socially awkward like the rest of us, then maybe cashing out partially will help your situation ;)
What the Private Banks expect. Joke aside, it is important you understand something. If you come around in Zurich to open a bank account and partially cash out, just don’t expect Private Banks will make an exception for you if you are small. You can’t ask them to facilitate your cash out, buy a 1m apartment with the proceeds of the sale, and not leave anything on your current account. It won’t work. Sadly, under 5m you are considered small in private banking. The bank is ok to let you open an account, provided that your kyc and compliance file are validated, but they will also want you to become a client and leave some money there to invest. This might me despicable, but I am just explaining you their rules. If you want to cash out, you should sell enough to be comfortable and have some left. Also expect the account opening to last at least 3-4 week if everything goes well. You can't just open an account overnight.
The cash out logistics. Cashing out 1m USD a day in bitcoin or more is not so hard.
Let me just tell you this: Even if you get a Tier 4 account with Kraken and ask Alejandro there to raise your limit over $100k per day, Even if you have a bitfinex account and you are willing to expose your wealth there, Even if you have managed to pass all the crazy due diligence at Bitstamp,
The amount should be fractioned to avoid risking your full wealth on exchange and getting slaughtered on the price by trading big quantities. Cashing out involves significant risks at all time. There is a security risk of compromising your keys, a counterparty risk, a fat finger risk. Let it be done by professionals. It is worth every single penny.
Most importantly, there is a major difference between trading on an exchange and trading OTC. Even though it’s not publicly disclosed some exchange like Kraken do have OTC desks. Trading on an exchange for a large amount will weight on the prices. Bitcoin is a thin market. In my opinion over 30% of the coins are lost in translation forever. Selling $10m on an exchange in a day can weight on the prices more than you’d think. And if you trade on a exchange, everything is shown on record, and you might wipe out the prices because on exchanges like bitstamp or kraken ultimately your counterparties are retail investors and the market depth is not huge. It is a bit better on Bitfinex. It is way better to trade OTC. Accessing the institutional OTC market is not easy, and that is also the reason why you should ask a regulated financial intermediary if we are talking about huge amounts.
Last point, always chose EUR as opposed to USD. EU correspondent banks won’t generally block institutional amounts. However we had the cases of USD funds frozen or delayed by weeks.
Most well-known OTC desks are Cumberlandmining (ask for Lucas), Genesis (ask for Martin), Bitcoin Suisse AG (ask for Niklas), circletrade, B2C2, or Altcoinomy (ask for Olivier)
Very very large whales can also set up escrow accounts for massive block trades. This world, where blocks over 30k BTC are exchanged between 2 parties would deserve a reddit thread of its own. Crazyness all around.
Your options: DIY or going through a regulated financial intermediary.
Execution trading is a job in itself. You have to be patient, be careful not to wipe out the order book and place limit orders, monitor the market intraday for spikes or opportunities. At big levels, for a large cash out that may take weeks, these kind of details will save you hundred thousands of dollars. I understand crypto holders are suspicious and may prefer to do it by themselves, but there are regulated entities who now offer the services. Besides, being a crypto millionaire is not a guarantee you will get institutional daily withdrawal limits at exchange. You might, but it will take you another round of KYC with them, and surprisingly this round might be even more aggressive that the ones at Private banks since exchange have gone under intense scrutiny by regulators lately.
The fees for cashing out through a regulated financial intermediary to help you with your cash out should be around 1-2% flat on the nominal, not more. And for this price you should get the full package: execution/monitoring of the trades AND onboarding in a private bank. If you are asked more, you are being abused.
Of course, you also have the option to do it yourself. It is a way more tedious and risky process. Compliance with the exchange, compliance with the private bank, trading BTC/fiat, monitoring the transfers…You will save some money but it will take you some time and stress. Further, if you approach a private bank directly, it will trigger a series of red flag to the banks. As I said in my previous post, they call a direct approach a “walk-in”. They will be more suspicious than if you were introduced by someone and won’t hesitate to show you high fees and load your portfolio with in-house products that earn more money to the banks than to you. Remember also most banks still do not understand crypto so you will have a lot of explanations to provide and you will have to start form scratch with them!
The paradox of crypto millionaires Most of my clients who made their wealth through crypto all took massive amount of risks to end up where they are. However, most of them want their bank account to be managed with a low volatility fixed income capital preservation risk profile. This is a paradox I have a hard time to explain and I think it is mainly due to the fact that most are distrustful towards banks and financial markets in general. Many clients who have sold their crypto also have a cash-out blues in the first few months. This is a classic situation. The emotions involved in hodling for so long, the relief that everything has eventually gone well, the life-changing dynamics, the difficulties to find a new motivation in life…All these elements may trigger a post cash-out depression. It is another paradox of the crypto rich who has every card in his hand to be happy, but often feel a bit sad and lonely. Sometimes, even though it’s not my job, I had to do some psychological support. A lot of clients have also become my friends, because we have the same age and went through the same “ordeal”. First world problem I know… Remember, cashing out is not the end. It’s actually the beginning. Don’t look back, don’t regret. Cash out partially, because it does not make sense to cash out in full, regret it and want back in. relax.
The race to cash out crypto billionaire and the concept of late exiter. The Winklevoss brothers are obviously the first of a series. There will be crypto billionaires. Many of them. At a certain level you can have a whole family office working for you to manage your assets and take care of your needs . However, let me tell you it’s is not because you made it so big that you should think you are a genius and know everything better than anyone. You should hire professionals to help you. Managing assets require some education around the investment vehicles and risk management strategies. Sorry guys but with all the respect I have for wallstreebet, AMD and YOLO stock picking, some discipline is necessary. The investors who have made money through crypto are generally early adopters. However I have started to see another profile popping up. They are not early adopters. They are late exiters. It is another way but just as efficient. Last week I met the first crypto millionaire I know who first bough bitcoin over 1000$. 55k invested at the beginning of this year. Late adopter & late exiter is a route that can lead to the million.
Last remarks. I know banks, bankers, and FIAT currencies are so last century. I know some of you despise them and would like to have them burn to the ground. With compliance officers taking over the business, I would like to start the fire myself sometimes. I hope this extensive guide has helped some of you. I am around if you need more details. I love my job despite all my frustration towards the banking industry because it makes me meet interesting people on a daily basis. I am a crypto enthusiast myself, and I do think this tech is here to stay and will change the world. Banks will have to adapt big time. Things have started to change already; they understand the threat is real. I can feel the generational gap in Geneva, with all these old bankers who don’t get what’s going on. They glaze at the bitcoin chart on CNBC in disbelief and they start to get it. This bitcoin thing is not a joke. Deep inside, as an early adopter who also intends to be a late exiter, as a libertarian myself, it makes me smile with satisfaction.
Cheers. @swisspb on telegram
submitted by Swissprivatebanker to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Buttcoin Foundation ROCKED as founder exposed to be PAID SHILL for Butterfly Labs

My name is borderpatrol. I'm the founder of Buttcoin.org and have been making fun of bitcoiners since 2011. Buttcoin is one of the oldest Bitcoin sites on the internet and just last month celebrated it's 1 millionth visitor.
And about 7 months ago I (accidently) became a paid shill for Butterly Labs.
In December of 2013, Bitcoin losing steam and after 2 1/2 years of running the site I was getting tired. I had started up school again and work was getting steady so I wasn't updating as much. I was in the middle of a redesign to keep myself busy but I went weeks between updates. But I liked the site so I kept it around. A few months prior killhamster had helped me find new comedy gold to mine and was posting constantly on the twitter.
I was approached by someone named Jeff. He emailed me from a domain at a local bar in Chicago. He had asked about buying the site. This wasn't the first offer I had gotten. I have been asked to comment on articles in PC World and speak at John Hopkins University about Bitcoins and the site was somewhat popular, but no one ever put in any serious offers. The site got steady traffic but everyone who knows about bitcoins, knows about computers. And everyone who knows about computers runs AdBlock. So the site made no money but was a fun little hobby of mine.
Jeff presented himself as a regular reader of the site who owned bitcoins and had presumably cashed out. He said he liked the writing style, liked the site, and wanted to know if I was interested in a sale. I asked what he was offering. He said he wanted to offer me $XX,XXX dollars (not as high as the $30,000 someone is quoting however). I thought his was a joke. The site had no revenue and was virtually impossible to monetize. The only people willing to advertise on bitcoins sites are BFL, Mt. Gox, BitPay, and they would never advertise on Buttcoin. I asked him a few more questions to gauge his sincerity; what he planned on doing with the site, how the transition would be handled, would he allow me to continue to write for the site. He explained that he wanted to keep the site like "The Onion of Bitcoin", wanted me to keep writing for a minimum of 6 months. He also wanted everything to be in his daughters name because she was just graduating out of journalism school and he wanted her to learn online publishing. The guy was going to buy my site and then let me still have control. I have bought and sold a few domains and sites before and could tell he was serious, so I said fuck yeah and took his money. Signed a contract, completed escrow and
We did the site transfer and closed escrow. The day after the transfer occurred my admin account was locked out even though I had an agreement to stay there for 6 months. Since I was already fighting with little site issues because of the transfer I didn't think much of it, I emailed Jeff but got no response. Killhamster still had publishing rights. The next day we noticed that our most popular article on the entire site, the "The $22,484.00 Butterfly Labs Mini Rig bitcoin miner is a huge, broken, unstable piece of shit." had been edited and now read The Butterfly Labs Mini Rig is a sexy Bitcoin mining machine. At this point killhamster emailed Jeff and asked what was up. He stated that there were "going to be some changes to attract new advertisers". He explained that he liked the humor but picking on specific brands was no good. He said that BFL pays $1000/month for every ad on BitcoinTalk and that there's no reason we can't get the same kind of deal. Since my account was now locked out and I was the original author, killhamster could not change the article. At this point I was pretty bummed that what was told to me was no true but whatever, not much I could do about that now. Killhamster was still running the twitter and planning to do some funny stuff with future articles. I wanted to see what was up with this guy though.
I checked and see what was edited. The only thing edited was That BFL article and 2 more, one about them faking CE certification and one where Wired tested it and was unimpressed. But there was some much worse stuff on there that wasn't touched. If he was trying to clean up the site for advertisers, why just those BFL articles.
Then I remembered that my Google Search Rankings for certain Butterfly Labs related terms were high. Very High. Buttcoin was ranking between 3-4 for the search term "Butterfly Labs" and "Butterfly Labs Review" and was usually #1 for "Butterfly Labs Scam" and "Is Butterfly Labs ligit". It was obvious to me that the purpose of purchasing the site was to simply remove the negative articles that were destroying their search traffic and making them look bad.
So I Google "Jeff Butterfly Labs"
http://www.butterflylabs.com/management-view/jeff-ownby-2/
Jeff Ownby is the VP of marketing for BFL.
I never got his last name and all contracts where under his "daughter's name".
So I looked a bit deeper and see Jeff from BFL graduated from Elmhurst College in Illinois and the Jeff that bought Buttcoin emailed me from was a Chicago-area bar domain. I still couldn't get this guy's last name but I finally found an old Facebook post from a press release by the bar the guy owns and it said his name was Jeff Ownby. Could be another guy with the same name but I'm sure now that BFL bought the site simply to remove three negative articles.
So that's the whole story. I was tricked into selling Buttcoin.org to BFL and no longer have access to the site so I've set up camp on the subreddit instead so I can shitpost about bitcoins still. Killhamster still can write articles once in a while and does wonderful things on the twitter. And in way, even though I never owned any, I still cashed out because of Bitcoin.
submitted by borderpatrol to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

Addressing the many concerns related to Obelisk

Why make ASICs at all?

Our blog has a longer post on the subject, but the ultimate answer is that GPU mining is very insecure. For the vast majority of GPU mined coins out there (including Sia), it is the case that there are multiple, if not many, individuals who operate enough GPUs to execute a 51% attack against the coin all by themselves. There are some very large Ethereum GPU farms out there, and they are a threat to all small GPU-mined coins. (our market cap is a factor of 50 smaller than Ethereum - we are a small coin). And it's not just Ethereum farms to be afraid of, there are massive GPU farms dedicated to machine learning as well, and other big-data related use cases. All of those are potential sources for a 51% attack. Even worse, if the price of the coin tanks following such an attack, the attacker has nothing to lose, because the core purpose of their hardware is unrelated to Sia, and unaffected by a change in price.
Though it sounds terrible and unintuitive, a single centralized entity running ASICs would be a much more secure situation than this. Because with a single central ASIC entity, you get two huge advantages:
  1. There's only 1 entity capable of performing a 51% attack. This is much better than having multiple entities that are each individually capable of performing a 51% attack.
  2. If the price of the coin falls, the entity that has all of the hardware loses a lot of money. That hardware isn't good for anything besides Sia mining, so that entity is quite invested in propping up the siacoin price.
We chose ASICs over GPUs because even the worst case scenario is more secure and better for the coin than the situation with GPU mining.
But we also did not want a single entity owning and operating all of the ASICs. That's when we realized, if we were ASIC manufacturers ourselves, we could guarantee that at least one entity is selling chips to the larger community. The unfortunate fact is that either way, there is going to be a small number of chip manufacturers who have the power to sell chips to the community. Even so, this is a better situation than what you get with GPU mining.
We are making ASICs so that we can guarantee the first batch of ASICs will make it to the Sia community. Without that, we have no idea if the first batch of ASICs will be sold to the public or hoarded by some greedy investors who were able to pay the full price of manufacturing up-front.

Why are you doing the presale so early?

We, put simply, don't have enough cash even to do the early development of the chips. We need financing to pay for chip development.
Traditionally, we would find some private investors, have them front some millions, and in return promise them a very good deal on some hardware. The private investors would get the first stab at buying ASICs, they'd get a huge chunk, and they'd get them at an exclusive deal for taking on the risk early. We actually had private investors come forward offering this to us, with enough money to fund the full development and manufacture of the first batch of chips - this isn't a hypothetical, it's a real offer that the Sia team received.
This didn't seem fair to us. When we finally did get to the point where the miners were ready to be sold to the community, we would have to offer the community a worse deal. Less risky, but ultimately it would mean that the community was excluded from the opportunity of participating early, and the result is a huge chunk of the chips going to some private investors.
Such a situation is still better than GPU mining, but it didn't seem like the best that we could do. We felt that we could do better by opening the early presale to everyone.

Why not accept credit cards?

Payment processors are not friendly to Bitcoin products. We contacted Stripe and were told point-blank that they would not process payments for cryptocurrency miners. We appreciate everyone who pointed us towards Stripe as a bitcoin-friendly company, but they gave us a direct no.
Paypal has a long history of freezing merchant accounts with little warning, and when they do so they freeze your existing money in addition to freezing incoming payments - we would be unable to pay our bills if Paypal did this to us, and it would unquestionably cause delays. Visa and MasterCard are not much better in terms of track record.
Losing access to our accounts would unquestionably cause delays. ASIC hardware is already well known to suffer from serious delays, and we need to limit our exposure to delays.
We are in an industry that is unfortunately fraught with fraud. With revenue-generated devices such as miners, criminals are much more likely to try to target these devices as a way to cash in on stolen credit cards, stolen identities, hacked bank accounts, etc. The fraud rates are staggering, and as a result most payment processors outright refuse to deal with it. We are aware that Bitmain is partnered with Paypal, though we don't know the details behind how that came to be.

Why not accept Siacoin?

This was a harder decision. We could quite easily choose to accept siacoin, however we fear that Siacoin is not ready to handle such a massive presale. The market cap and daily volume of Bitcoin is a factor of 100 times as large as the Siacoin market cap and volume. Moving millions or tens of millions of dollars through Bitcoin is not likely to make much of a dent. Siacoin on the other hand, a sudden sell order for millions of dollars would likely tank the price. That not only means the ecosystem is unhappy with us, it also means that we might only be able to sell $2499 of siacoin for $2200.
A lot of people have accused us of not having confidence in our own coin. Unfortunately, this is true. Even at a $500 million market cap, Sia is not ready to handle a presale of this size. It's a pragmatic decision based on the fact that we don't want to dump our own coin. We know that people will be selling siacoin to buy the miners anyway, but we still feel that this situation is much better than us accepting siacoin directly.
This decision was a disappointment for us as well. We would love to accept siacoin, and if we weren't talking about processing millions of dollars in a single day, we absolutely would be accepting siacoin. And, as Sia continues growing up, the concerns above will become less and less.

What about this 5% gains/losses stuff?

Our intention was never to play fishy financial games with our users, and honestly this isn't even something that crossed our minds as a potential problem point. I think a big part of the issue was that people did not realize we will be converting to US dollars as fast as possible - we will be doing the conversion in minutes or hours as long as we can keep up with the order volume.
The rationale is very simple. If the price plummets before we are able to convert the Bitcoin, we won't have enough money to create the hardware. We really don't expect this to matter, because we don't expect the price to swing by more than $100 (which is what would be required) in the few hours that we're going to be sitting on the BTC. If it does, we'll need more coins or we can't produce the hardware - our costs are in dollars, which means we need to end up with the right amount of dollars in our account at the end of the day.
The original stance on not returning gains was also very simple. There's no transparency into when we sell the coins. If we sell the coins within 60 minutes of receiving them, and then 4 hours later there's a huge surge in the price, we will almost certainly have users emailing us and posting about how we owe them a refund. We won't have that refund, because we'll have sold the coins before the price rise.
There's not much we can do to provide transparency into this either. And we're likely to get requests for refunds even if it takes 3 months for Bitcoin to rise by 5%. This promise of returning gains that we've put forward is going to be a massive headache, because we're not expecting to have any gains, even if the price goes up by that much we'll have likely converted to USD faster than that. Our whole goal is to convert to USD as fast as possible.
We're sorry that we have to go through this headache at all. If we could get set up with a processor like Stripe, we could accept both Bitcoin and USD and let them deal with the conversion process, slippage risk, and all the other headache associated with using multiple currencies.

Why shipping a full 12 months away?

Before we set out to make Sia miners, we did a study of companies who had previously sold and pre-sold Bitcoin miners. This included talking to both Avalon and Butterfly Labs, and talking to professionals and advisors who have shipped hardware successfully in other industries. The core piece of advice we got was pretty consistent: expect delays. Expect lots of delays, and expect them to come from the most absurd setbacks. (Example: one of the people we talked to had to delay their product because there was a global shortage of power supplies, and they had to wait in line behind billion dollar companies to get some).
Our projections indicate that if all goes well, we should be able to ship the miners in 6-8 months. Nothing we are doing is new. Plenty of companies have gone through the process of developing a chip, manufacturing it, putting it in a box, and then shipping it to users. There is almost no innovation risk here. Sia's PoW algorithm is deliberately very ASIC friendly, even more than Bitcoin. We have advisors who have gone through this process before, and the types of challenges facing us are well known.
6-8 months is reasonable, except that every single person we've talked to has told us that unexpected delays is a guarantee, and that by nature of being unexpected, there's not really any way to prevent them by planning around them. Delays are just inherent to shipping hardware. So we chose to set our target at 12 months.
We will ship the miners as soon as they are ready. If we are a few months ahead of schedule, and have somehow managed to avoid the foretold delays, we will ship them months ahead of schedule. But we want our users to have a realistic understanding of the expected delays. We've baked a generous amount of time for setbacks into our shipping date. We'll almost certainly need at least some of it.

Why $2499?

Making chips is very expensive. We have to sell thousands of units to cover the cost of the chips. A nontrivial percentage of the price is going to go towards chassis, shipping, power supply, control board, fans, etc. Those costs are relatively the same even if we put in fewer chips, which means the total percentage of our budget going towards chips drops significantly. If we cut the price in half, we'll have to sell roughly three times as many units to break even on the cost of the chips. If we cut the price in half again, we'd need to sell a completely unreasonable number of units to break even on the cost of the chips. It's unfortunate, but the fixed costs of chip manufacture means that we really need vast majority of the price of the unit to be spent on chips, otherwise we simply won't be able to sell enough units.
There is a second reason as well. As stated in the section above, the industry is plagued by delays an unexpected expenses. We need a healthy budget to plan around potential setbacks, because we've been guaranteed that there will be multiple significant setbacks by those who have gone through this process before. If we bring down the price of the unit, we will also be reducing the amount of wiggle room we have for disaster if suddenly we have to replace parts, re-do designs, or otherwise perform expensive adjustments to our plans.

Are you guys qualified to be working on hardware?

Zach is a mechanical engineer, I've been in the Bitcoin space since before ASICs started shipping, and we have advisors who have successfully shipped hardware before. The team that is designing the chips for the miner has designed chips and shipped chips for Bitcoin miners previously - they are familiar with the whole process, and have done it before. The people in charge of designing the PCB board and other aspects of the miner are also all experienced with their respective tasks. We will be facilitating frequent and strong communications between everyone working on the various components of the miner.
The ultimate answer is that the Sia development team is not qualified to be making this type of hardware. However, the Sia development team is not the team working on the hardware. Most of the heavy lifting is being performed by teams with lots of experience in this industry, including experience that is directly related to cryptocurrency miners.
What we are doing is not new. Dozens of cryptocurrency miners have been created and shipped in the past, and we are not starting from day zero. We have many advantages over the previous rounds of pre-sale cryptocurrency miners, but the biggest is that it's no longer the wild west of hardware design. There is a standard, and there are tried-and-true methods for making reliable cryptocurrency miners. We get to fall back on the mistakes and successes of the many miners that have been built previously, and we will be leaning heavily on teams and people that have direct experience in this field as opposed to doing everything ourselves.

Does this mean that Sia is getting less attention from the developers?

Sia right now has four full time employees. Myself, Zach, Luke, and Johnathan. Zach was hired in June 2017, less than one month ago. He is not a programmer.
Luke and Johnathan will continue with the same responsibilities that they've always had. They helped out a little bit in setting up the website, and in setting up a secure database to process orders + payment information, however the majority of their time has been focused on Sia even as we set up this presale. Going forward, they will be almost entirely uninvolved in Obelisk.
I have had to allocate about 25% of my time to Obelisk. Slightly more this week, due to the PR meltdown we had from the initial announcement. But most of my time is still going towards Sia. Most people know I work over 100 hours per week (some weeks will eclipse 120), and that a quarter of my time is not a small amount.
Zach is closer to 50% Sia, 50% Obelisk at this point. We're expecting that to tone down once the presale is over - much of this time has been spent with banks, with lawyers, with payment processors, and we won't have to do that beyond the initial setup phase. Zach and myself will still be having weekly conversations with every part of the Obelisk supply chain, including the chip designers, chip manufacturers, control board designers, the miner assembly teams, and the fulfillment centers, so even after the presale there will be effort going towards Obelisk.
But nobody on the Sia team is doing chip design, nobody is doing control board design, most of the really heavy work is being done by experienced teams and suppliers that we've found and already spent weeks vetting and verifying. We incorporated Obelisk as a separate company precisely so that Obelisk would eventually have a completely separate team.
And finally, as Obelisk is wholly owned by Nebulous, a successful hardware company does mean revenue and income for the Sia team. Cryptocurrency mining tends to be low margin, so tens of millions in revenue for Obelisk does not necessarily millions in funding for the Sia team. But it is something, and it will give us more time to get the storage platform to the next levels of maturity.

Conclusion

I know that a lot of you are concerned about the miner presale that we are conducting. I hope that this post has helped to alleviate those concerns. I hope it makes sense why we are doing a public presale, instead of seeking private investment until we have a full prototype. I hope this post has clarified our decisions around payment methods, and around our price point. I hope you feel more confident that this is something we will be able to pull off. And finally, I hope I've reassured you guys that Sia is still our primary focus, and that we haven't suddenly pivoted into being a hardware company.
We are ultimately doing this to provide better security to the Sia network. GPU mined coins are frighteningly insecure, and Sia is now large enough where there is serious money on the line. We are doing this to gain security, and also to ensure as much decentralization as possible when it comes to chip manufacture.
We are typically viewed as one of the most reputable teams in cryptocurrency, and I know it's why a lot of you are here. We hope that the Sia ASIC that we are going to be manufacturing and selling strengthens this reputation, but ultimately we will not find out until the miners are actually being shipped.
We continue to be excited about this new product. We truly do feel that ASICs are the right direction for Sia, and we also feel that we are doing the right thing by bringing the opportunity to own a Sia ASIC to the broader Sia community. We are sorry for the fallout from our sloppy original announcement, and we hope that we have since made up for it.
Finally, we hope that you are interested in buying a miner. Even if we only sell a small batch, ASICs are going to utterly dominate the hashrate of Sia going forward. This is an egalitarian sale where everyone has equal opportunity to buy a miner - there's no cap, and we will ensure that small buyers are not shut out by larger buyers in any way.
submitted by Taek42 to siacoin [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs Pre-Order - Legal Issue.

Thank you in advance for your time.
On December 2nd, 2013, I placed a pre-order for a product that was expected to ship in February-March, based on my order date and time. This information was placed on the website as a caution to buyers. I was OK with this though and placed the pre-order.
The company posted on its forum that (from March 3rd or 5th 2014) it won't even begin shipping the product for another 5 weeks. Putting it in early April. I'm 3+ months in queue on the list for shipment as orders began around October, possibly sooner.
I have contacted the company about getting a refund, as have many other people on the forum. But the only response given is, they will give us a 50% coupon off of another device, only to be placed at the end of the queue, for the additional device.
This product is an ASIC miner, its sole purpose is for mining Bitcoins. When I purchased it, expecting a Feb-Mar delivery, the ROI was still practical. Now it's not. and the offer they are providing doesn't equal what an on time shipment would have been worth.
I get that people might not take this post serious, but it is. This was a $2818.00 investment for a product that serves one purpose, and is now useless.
The company is denying refunds for its lack of meeting its proposed deadlines and is not providing a comparable offer, if it were to ship at its original time.
On the site, the company did state that all sales are final, but they also stated that if I ordered at that time, to expect my product in February or March.
Do I have any legal grounds with this? All i want is a refund.
Edit: Butterfly Labs is located in Leawood, KS. I am located in Florida.
submitted by airborne305 to legaladvice [link] [comments]

How to Cancel My BF Labs Order?

Hi Reddit,
On May 6 I ordered the 5 GH/s Bitcoin Miner from Butterfly. I paid using PayPal, to the sum of $308.00. After a little over a month, I contacted them asking where my item was. They responded that I was given an order estimate of over 2 months and that my order status could be checked on their site (always "processing").
After 2 months, I started asking again, and it took them quite a long time to get back to me. I also had read within the few weeks before that of BF Labs' troubles, having come here and seen in the NY Times. They finally got back to me last week and told me that they could not provide me with any sort of shipping estimate, but they'd tell me when my item ships so I can track it. I told them that due to the time-sensitive nature of the product (aka it gets less valuable the longer I wait) and their inability to even give me some sort of estimate on my purchase, that I wanted a full refund.
They told me that I agreed when I purchased it that all sales were final. I went to my bank but they informed me I needed to go to PayPal since they are the ones who did the transaction. PayPal told me that they don't handle disputes for hardware/software since "it is usually a misunderstanding." They said I could send a letter to the company, which I did, and then PayPal immediately closed the case saying it was more than 45 days since the transaction.
So, whether or not any of you think I "deserve" a refund in this case, I am still going to attempt to get myself one. I think most people can agree that buying products where you pay up front and receive what you paid for "sometime in the future" is not an appropriate business model.
Now that my bank and PayPal and the company won't help me, what can I do to get my refund? The Better Business Bureau? FTC? I really have no idea.
Thanks for all your help, guys!
submitted by Screamteam411 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

[Selling] Butterfly Labs single 60GH/s miner and Raspberry Pi $3,600

Butterfly labs 60GHs Single SC in hand in Melbourne/Eastern suburbs - This is NOT a pre-order! Ordered in September 2012 and was delivered September 2013. Last of the few early pre-orders which got the upgrade from 50GH to 60GH.
Butterfly labs offer a Lifetime warranty for all their products, it covers manufacture defects and component failure.
Included:
 BFL SC Single 60GH/s bitcoin miner BFL power supply BFL usb cable BFL cardboard box and padding 
I'm based in the Eastern suburbs and would prefer to meet in public anywhere in Eastern suburbs or Melbourne or surrounding areas. I'm available most business days and weekends. Please message me to arange a place and time, payment in cash.
I will also include in this sale a Raspberry Pi loaded and ready to mine with the miner. No USB hub required, just plug it in, turn it on, and it will begin mining bitcoins. Very easy and no need to leave your computer on this way which also saves power.
Also included:
 Raspberry Pi (Model B with 512MB RAM) Power adapter for Pi SD card with Minepeon loaded Raspberry Pi clear case 
This is my current setup and has been working very well. You won't need anything else to start mining.
This is NOT a pre-order! This BFL ASIC is currently hashing away in Melbourne, don't waste anymore time waiting, get it today! I will try my best to deliver in person same day or next day.
submitted by klestor to MelbTrade [link] [comments]

Attention to All Inquiring New Cointerra Customers

I would like to point out a few things to any customers that are considering ordering from cointerra, especially since they are taking pre-orders for a MAY 2014 batch now, and have not even began shipping for their December 2013 batches. I would first like to disclose that i am indeed a waiting customer for an early January order for multiple asics.
-The last testing for cointerra machines were only about 1.5 TH/s, they currently advertise for 2TH/s machines. There has not been any more updates to this particular point since their last blog update about performance about two weeks ago.
-One may rightly question if Cointerra has mislead their customers by giving shipping dates that they knew they were not going to hit like other companies, Re: Hashfast and Butterfly labs, in order to take early pre orders to fund their operation. As everyone knows mining is time dependent and all calculations on risk to order from an asic manufacturer must be estimated based on future difficulty predictions, therefore shipping dates and performance are the main points that one must base their pre-payment decision from. They also marketed on the fact that they were better than the other asic manufactures and made it a point that they were going to ship on time.
-There is no real shipping estimates right now, basically they don't know when theyre going to ship. In early January they began contacting December 2013 batch customers telling them shipping would commence in less than two weeks. That did not happen.
Now I'm not sure how the profitability will play out for the May batches you may well be ROI but its not likely December batches will, and its looking bad for January as well, i would say do your research and expect a late underperforming product for your calculations. Also as an early customer I began to have second thoughts on getting this order and asked for a refund(payment in bitcoin) in September, at the time bitcoin did not make an almost ten fold move in price and I was pretty much begged to stay on as a customer and given perks. That has all changed now of course, now they would love to drop all of the early customers who took the most risk and now almost immediately ask if i want a refund when voicing concern over the late and what seems to be an underperforming product. Of course a refund is out of the question for now we will see how this plays out.
A few 'positive' points about Cointerra is that they are definitely not trying to run with our money, they are communicating their problems with us, although the updates have been vague and leave a lot to be answered. Also they seem professional I just vented for about a half hour to one of their sales associates and he took it quite well and answered my questions honestly from what i could tell.
I believe that until cointerra ships out any more products it is completely unethical to take more pre orders. They need to satisfy the customers that took the most risk on them and focus on delivering to them first. But hey, ethics and miner manufacturing seem to be mutually exclusive, so who knows.
From the experience from a current customer May is a long ways out make sure you do your research before buying asics.
submitted by wtfcointerra to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs Is Soliciting Previous Customers

An apparently contracted sales drone just called me representing Butterfly Labs. (I bought a Jalapeño back in March which shipped last month.) He offered me a 20% discount on any new purchase, and then mentioned the 600 GHs Monarch preorder. He estimated that it would ship "I don't know when." (http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/)
Even after waiting 7 months for my rapidly depreciating ASIC miner, I never believed that BFL was intentionally preying on gullible Bitcoin neophytes. After all, the product I received was solid, attractive, and it performed better than advertised. It's legit. But after talking to this sales dude, I have a different opinion. Preording Bitcoin mining hardware is a mistake you only make once. Surely BFL knows this, and yet they are trying to fool me twice. Nice try.
UPDATE: I received the "personalized discount code" e-mail. It expires in one week. Chuckle.
submitted by asciimo to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

[WTS] BFL 10.1 GHs Jalapeño & 60 GHs Singles Bitcoin Miners

Recently upgraded BFL Jalapeño to 10.1 GHs. ($600) Also have 4x BFL 60GHs Singles for sale as well. ($1800)
www.NTXbitcoin.com
submitted by jat0369 to BitMarket [link] [comments]

[WTS] 2x BFL Bitcoin Miner [7GHs and 10Ghs], power supplies, various USB Miners and Raspberry Pi Model B for controlling BFL

Can not sell for at least 6 months
I need to get these things out of my house. Everything runs perfectly and have been run for about 6 weeks [turned them off back in the summer after running too hot]. I bought them from Butterfly Labs directly at retail price. I am interested in knowing how much I can get for them. Doing some math I think I can get about $300-$350
I will not be making the sale until July, when I can actually get to them and get them shipped out. [No pictures, again just looking for reference prices]
What I have:
1x BFL Bitcoin Miner 7GHs (Likely could part for $60)
1x BFL Bitcoin Miner 10GHs (Likely could part for $90)
5x USB Block Eruptors 330MHs (Likely could part with the lot for $35)
2x AntMiner 2GHs [Never used] (Retail on Amazon for $35 each, could sell for $30 each)
1x Raspberry Pi Model B [would probably sell 4GB SD Card, USB Hub, Power Supply, and 16x2 LCD display with it] (Would sell the entire package for $70)
Willing to ship US only
submitted by Thinksgeek to BitMarket [link] [comments]

For Sale: Butterfly Labs Jalapeno 7+ GH/s BFL ASIC Miner on cryptothrift

For Sale: Butterfly Labs Jalapeno 7+ GH/s BFL ASIC Miner on cryptothrift for cryptocoins
Tags: BFL, Butterfly, Miner, usb
cryptothrift is a Bitcoin, Litecoin and altcoin marketplace and auction site with automated escrow.
submitted by cryptothrift to cryptothrift [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs 5 GH/s ASIC Bitcoin Miner (Jalapeno) Review ... How to setup a 60 GH/s Butterfly Labs BFL Single SC ASIC Miner New Butterfly Monarch Bitcoin miners How to: Mine Bitcoins with Raspberry Pi and Butterfly Labs ... Bitcoin mining mexico butterfly labs 10gh/s - Hackwise

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 3x Butterfly Labs Monarch 700gh/s Bitcoin Sha256 Miner at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products! Alibaba.com offers 314 butterfly labs bitcoin miner products. About 0% of these are Blockchain Miners. A wide variety of butterfly labs bitcoin miner options are available to you, such as products status, material, and memory interface. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Butterfly Labs BFL 60 Gh/s ASIC Bitcoin BTC Miner SGL600G Sha256 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products! Linux butterflylabs + cgminer Bitcoin headless miner. Sep 03, 2013· Finally, I received my first order of a butterfly labs miner (little single)!!! Woohoo! This device is 30GH/s and depending on which pool you connect to, you will not do 30GH/s ! At 30GH/s the device needs 130W, at 10GH/s it needs 60W. As you can see in my other post, my preferred mining pool is bitcoinpool. But their hashing ... Fast forward to today when Butterfly Labs offers for sale their BitForce SHA256 Mini Rig. The base configuration of this rig contains 18 FPGA cards and costs $15,295 (plus s/h). The illustration above shows a rig holding its maximum 24 FTPA cards. The result is the first time that 25 Ghash/s has ever had such a small physical footprint. With power consumption at 1,250W the efficiency ratio ...

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Butterfly Labs 5 GH/s ASIC Bitcoin Miner (Jalapeno) Review ...

The Butterfly Labs 5 GH/s Jalapeno. This is the small ASIC miner from Butterfly Labs. BitCoin Mining Hardware Guide ft. CRAZY Obsidian Mining Rig - Duration: 8:30. ... T4D #82 - Butterfly Labs ASIC bitcoin miner, Fluke 107...and a fair bit more. - Duration: 25:51. mjlorton 25,249 ... Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. My BitForce SHA256 Single bitcoin miner. How To Make Money Scrapping Metal For Beginners - Scrap Metal Tips, What To Look For - Duration: 26:49. thubprint Recommended for you

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